What is a god? July 2, 2009
Posted by shaunphilly in religion, atheism, polyamory, culture.Tags: god, god of the gaps, Stephen F. Roberts, theology, zeus
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I was having a conversation yesterday while out at The Devil’s Alley on Chestnut St. with some friends. As I sat down, I discovered a conversation about “higher powers,” and my ears perked up. What is a god? That was the question.
A good question it is. As a general rule, I don’t define what a god is. I believe that I should listen to what someone tells me they think their god is and answer whether I think such a being exists. In general, the answer is no. But sometimes, someone’s definition of god is more than a little different than the general concept of an omnimax being (omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, etc). In this context, someone presented a definition of ‘god’ as something that has power over him. I thought that this was a bit vague, so I asked if an alien being were to visit that had great power (technology that would seem like magic to us, for example) would that being be considered a god? He said yes.
This led me to thinking. Has the concept of god become so pushed back to a logical construct or vague power in discussions of theology so much that when I run into more primitive concepts of god they don’t even seem god-like? Take for example the ancient Greek gods. Zeus, the ruler of Olympus, was not an all powerful being responsible for the creation of the universe or even omniscient. He was a powerful being that could kick your ass, perhaps, but he was nothing like the God of modern theology. Would Zeus be considered a god in the theological discussions of today?
My immediate response to this claim that powerful aliens would be considered gods was to say that this definition was too vague and inclusive to be legitimate. This is largely because my atheism, admittedly a reaction to people’s theological ideas, is a lack of belief in a concept of god that transcends mere power over me or greater than me. It is a rejection of a being of ultimate power, presence, and knowledge as is defined by most religious traditions. I do not reject belief in powers greater than me (although I don’t believe in aliens, due to the lack of evidence for them so far) but in the concept of a being that created everything, is all powerful, etc.
There is nothing automatically metaphysically problematic with the idea of powerful beings that exist. Granted, we don’t have the means to replicate this power now, but we may in the future. Being a bit of a sci-fi fan, I could refer to Q (Star Trek), The Ancients (Stargate), The Protectorate (Power; ahem…**shameless plug**) and other such beings that look god-like from a certain point of view. But are these things gods?
If we were to develop technology that would give us these types of powers, would we become gods? Now, Mormons and Scientologists possibly aside, I don’t think that such things are the same type of question as we talk about in the question of whether a god exists or not. If some people are using the term ‘god’ in a non-traditional fashion then I think that there might be room for some discussion, but a different one than what I typically have.
The problem with having a definition of god that can include things like aliens is that where is the line drawn? I don’t want to evoke a fallacy here, but there should be some line where above it is a god and below is something else. I don’t know where that line is, but I think that some baseline attributes need to be considered. What those attributes are…that’s a discussion for another day, perhaps.
Here’s an extreme example. If someone were to define their coffee cup as god, and then show me this coffee cup, then I cannot be an atheist rationally concerning that person’s god because I have good empirical evidence that it exists. But is this legitimate? Is this definition of ‘god’ (the coffee cup) too much of a redefinition of the concept of ‘god’ to be considered to make me me no longer an atheist?
What about a powerful alien, like in Star Trek V where the crew is hijacked and taken to the center of the galaxy where they meet a powerful being that claims to be the God of various traditions, including Judaism and Christianity. But the being ends up just being some powerful alien and ‘Bones’ calls him on this facade and they manage to escape. So, was this being a god (even if it wasn’t the specific god it claimed to be)?
I think that maybe the concept of what a god is has changed somewhat over the centuries. I think that this is because the more we understand how nature works, the smaller the domain of the supernatural becomes. Where Zeus was once a god, the role of Zeus is now no-longer supernatural. Thus, the gods of today are transcendent and invisible. Perhaps as they always were, at least since the days of the pre-Socratic philosophers, but even today we push back the supernatural with every advance in cosmology, biology, and neurology (among other fields).
The “God of the gaps” gets smaller and smaller.
Thus I will leave it as a general rule to allow those I meet to define their god, and I will leave it to them to largely be unable to do so. In fact, this is one of the reasons I am an atheist; theists almost never have a solid definition of what god is (and not just it’s name and what it had done, but what it is). And they want me to believe in it?
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
–Stephen F. Roberts
Irreducible Complexity; a conversation with God March 24, 2009
Posted by shaunphilly in religion, atheism, polyamory, culture.Tags: design, god, irreducible coplexity
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He sat for a while considering this argument. It had a subtle, yet undeniable truth that his mind wanted to reject, but couldn’t. It was a good argument, and he didn’t know how to reconcile it in his mind quite yet. He had thought that this was all there was, that no greater world existed, that this was the only reality. And on top of that, this was supposed to be his day off and he was supposed to be resting. Instead, he found that his mind was as busy as he had been with the rest of himself for the previous six days. It had been a long week, and and he wished that he could just rest, but rest would not come.
“So, what you are saying is that things in this world are too complex, and that no amount of time or normal processes could be enough to have these things come about by chance. They have to have a designer?”
The question had already been answered, but he just had wanted to make sure he could package it altogether nicely. Rather than answer him, his visitor just sat there, smiling.
He suddenly felt very presumptuous. He tried to remember how important he had felt as he built and created all week. He tried to recapture that feeling of pride in having done good work, but suddenly he thought that it had all been part of a greater plan. Because if this visitor of his was right, it would seem to indicate a need for there to be something larger, more powerful, and more intelligent than he–greater than this whole world that he thought he knew.
The argument of this visitor seemed air-tight. How could this world with all of its complexity and beauty have been brought about by simple chance? It must be the design of some greater force. He suddenly felt very humble, and the feeling of some presence, some power, some beneficence that surrounded him suddenly became overwhelming. It felt as if it had always been there, but that some pride or refusal to feel it had been present too but was now too weak to maintain itself. And as that pride began to crumble, he allowed it to wash over him, and he felt reborn.
Tears flowed, thoughts and muttered words of gratefulness, love, and overwhelming joy filled him as he felt this presence flow through him. As his visitor watched, he walked over to him and put a hand upon his shoulder, and they both stayed that way for some time.
“I thought that I was somehow in control. I thought that I was only answerable to me. I thought….”
“It’s OK; you didn’t know. But now that you do know, what will you do about it?”
He thought about this, and in that moment of deep feeling and passion for this new understanding, he rose to his feet and proclaimed to all that could hear him that….
“I will submit myself to this greater force. I will heed its commandments, share its love, and I will hope to one day make myself worthy of it. I will make sure that I spend my days in worship of this new found presence, and I thank you for showing it to me.”
The visitor smiled a little and looked into his eyes.
“I did nothing. I merely helped you open a door that you had closed through your own pride. You have denied the presence of its power too long, and you are now on the path to being righteous.
And as Yahweh looked at the visitor he fully appreciated, for the first time, that he, the great Yahweh, must have been the creation of an intelligent designer, for anything that is complex needs a maker. And to think, he had thought that it had been all about him, just because he created a universe. These superficial things, these false points of pride, were as nothing to this greater force. He tried to imagine what this greater power must have been like. It was probably beyond his ability to know.
So he stopped thinking about it.
And that is how God found super god.
—
Super god sat for a while considering this argument. It had a subtle, yet undeniable truth that his mind wanted to reject, but couldn’t….
